تدريب Shadowing: Feminist vs Anti-Feminist Women | PART 2 - تعلم التحدث بالإنجليزية عبر الفيديو

You would rather serve capitalism than serve your man.

The man that was put here to protect you.

Yeah, but does your man make enough money so that you don't have to work?

This is my thing.

These are, if we're talking about family units, these are two people, they get to decide what happens in their unit.

And reality is some men are not going to be able to provide all that they can.

Talk about pressure.

I feel like feminism was good for men because it kind of relieved them of a little bit of pressure.

It lifted everybody up.

It really did.

It's made men so much more depressed than ever.

It's made them weaker.

I think they just all like the fact that now they see, oh, women can be as good as us, because now that we're allowed to have all these rights, we're graduating from college more than that.

Why do you have to be?

Because we live in their world.

This conversation is often reduced to labels.

In this episode of The Bridge, feminist and anti-feminist women sit face-to-face to explore where their beliefs about womanhood,

equality, and freedom align, and where they don't.

I'm your host, Dr. Michelle Daff.

Welcome to The Bridge.

Only women should make laws about women's bodies.

No, no, no. Yes.

Not sure.

Okay.

You haven't spoken much.

Go ahead.

Yeah, I disagree with that.

I think that if we want women to be able to vote on things like the draft,

which affects men, which I don't think should exist, then I think that, you know,

it should be—it's It's not a per se men's or women's issue.

It's a human rights issue.

It's an equality issue.

I think that conversations about like who should be able to vote on abortion or something like that is like, I think a lot of people on my side fail to see

that there is a genuine concern with people who are pro-life because they do believe that the fetus is valuable,

that it's similar to a baby.

And I think if you have a serious issue like that, then I think all people should be able to vote on that.

I don't know why it would be exclusive to like women particularly.

I'm gonna say something controversial, but I think that men should step in a little bit more when it comes to laws,

even more now, because like they were saying, like women are emotionally led.

That's what I believe.

I believe, like right there.

Well, it's just like so many reactions constantly.

Yeah, it's emotions.

Like men feel their emotions, but they can also conduct themselves, at least when I'm in rooms with them.

Yet, but I will agree with the violence, right?

But I also say that women, they're making decisions on, I'll even go away from the abortion topic, lip fillers.

We see women from the media, they're getting injections everywhere, BBLs they're putting their life on the line to get BBLs

because that's the you know the propaganda or whatever they're putting out there

And so I just think that men should step in a little bit more

To protect us like yeah You can make the decision to go out there

and alter your whole body

But at the end of the day those women are putting their life on the line to do

that So that's why I say I think our men should actually step in more

when they see that we're destroying ourselves Like in that sense and that's just kind of one example and I give.

Maggie, you made a face.

Oh, I made a face because I was talking earlier.

I do agree, you should let people fail fantastically if they want to.

Sometimes people have to hit rock bottom and I say let them.

And I think that's how some people have to learn, unfortunately.

The reason I'm saying women should have more of a say on our bodies than men is just

if we look at history, men have had the only say on our bodies.

They used to perform gynecological operations on us in a room, a theater they called it, with just men.

And can you imagine being a woman, going under procedure, strapped to a table, and there's just a theater of men.

And there's not a single woman in there dictating whether or not this is a good thing that should be happening.

We didn't have a say.

We should have a say.

We haven't had a say.

We should.

We haven't.

I think, so one of the things

that I take with this romanticization of the past is if If you look between the 1950s and now,

almost every single marker of flourishing is up as women entered the workplace, as women entered policymaking.

It turns out that all Western liberal democracies have given more agency to women

and they have consistently outperformed other countries that don't do this.

And there's a reason for this, right, which is that we're always better together.

We're always better together.

This idea that men are more logical than women, it's just like the reality is like the emotional landscape is like way more complicated than that.

And good, wise decisions usually include emotions anyways, right?

So men being less emotional would be bad for wisdom.

And I don't think that men are less emotional.

I think they're the same.

And so every marker of flourishing has improved.

I guess, what would you rebut to that?

I think that they feel emotions.

I just think when I've—what I've noticed is that they're not so emotionally reactive, Unless if we look at the studies of like men that are in prison,

they usually come from single mothers, from what I've seen.

AMY WALTER, I actually don't think there should be any laws on women's bodies.

I don't think the only people who should be making decisions about what medical procedures a woman is receiving is herself, because she is an adult and can make choices for herself and with her doctor,

because those are the only people who should be making decisions when it comes to women's bodies.

I don't trust men to take a list and go to the grocery store and execute that successfully.

I certainly don't trust them to put laws on my body and execute that successfully.

Women are dying in Texas because of laws on their body.

A woman was strapped to a life support machine where a baby was forced to be made

when she was only six weeks pregnant, and the baby is now severely disabled.

And that was a law by man.

I don't think that men should be making decisions.

If they can't find the clitoris on image, I don't care what they think about my uterus.

Okay?

Like, that's my opinion.

100

No more laws on women's bodies, period.

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Women are adults.

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They can make the right health care decisions for themselves, along with their doctor, who is also in the right place to make health care decisions.

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Should lawmakers be making health care decisions at all?

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Hope not.

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Hope not.

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I don't really care what Mike Johnson has to say about my baby hole.

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So, that's how I feel about that.

108

If you don't have them making any laws towards women and their bodies, then that means that you wouldn't have a doctor that can lawfully give you an abortion, right?

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So that means, because the baby just doesn't naturally die, if we put no laws on the book, then they wouldn't be able to give you an abortion.

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If we didn't put laws on abortion, they could just perform an abortion.

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Like, that's the reality.

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But what if the doctor doesn't want to perform the abortion?

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What if he doesn't believe it?

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What does that have to do with law?

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That has to do with their choice.

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But if there are no laws on the book, then that means that nothing can be done about it.

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Well, that's not true, because there will still be doctors who perform that procedure.

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Like, I see the point that you're trying to make is, oh, if there's not a law in the book.

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These laws are not about expanding access to abortion.

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These laws are about diminishing access to women's health care, which has resulted in the actual very real deaths of women across the United States

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or near-death experiences of women all across the United States.

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Like, there's not some law on the book somewhere that's like, you get to have an abortion.

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That's not most cases.

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You guys always talk about the smaller cases.

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Those smaller cases matter because anybody dying is too many people dying.

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But what about the man that seeds you are carrying?

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Do he have a say?

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Do he have to pay for your child now that you have a baby?

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So he has no say.

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He does have a say with his body.

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It's at ejaculation.

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I'm glad we had that conversation.

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My body, my choice, a uterus.

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His body, his choice, ejaculation.

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So you have a choice to decide that, okay, I don't want to keep this baby.

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Right, because that's my body choice.

137

But he has no choice in that.

138

No, his body choice was ejaculation.

139

Okay, but you had a choice, but...

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Yeah, our bodies work differently, so I'm glad we're having this conversation.

141

Once he ejaculates, can he not pay for that child?

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He has a choice, right?

143

Well, he didn't make a body choice that was appropriate for him, is what I'm hearing here.

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You're telling me his body choice, he doesn't agree with that now.

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You have a half of a human being that belongs to him in your body.

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Yeah, but he had a choice in ejaculation, didn't he?

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So it's all about me, me, me.

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That's what I hear.

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Did he have a body choice at ejaculation?

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Did he have a body choice? choice

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that you let him do it you oh you're going to

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project a lady yeah she doesn't even holiday you open to

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a leg who has who grants access to sex women do

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oh I'm sorry you're blaming you like they're raping me this is why I can't have a conversation

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because I just told you that both men

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and women have a body choice because our biology is different I let you know

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that men have a body choice you agreed

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that ejaculation is a body choice that is had by men and I said Great, that's her choice.

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I think both of you guys had a— Well, then it's women's fault for letting them finish inside.

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Once you opened your legs, that was a body choice.

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And then he made a body choice, so now we have to decide what we do after.

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So let me ask this question.

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I don't know if this is also what you're asking.

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So if everyone made their body choices and the baby is here,

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are you saying then the man should have responsibility for that child or should not?

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I'm saying that if she wants to get a divorce—I mean, she wants to keep a baby and the man doesn't, then he should have the right to say, no, I'm not paying for it.

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Once the baby comes.

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Yes, he should have that right then.

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If we're talking about equality, why do he have to pay for your body choice?

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Well, his body choice was ejaculation.

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Okay, but you opened your legs.

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That was your body choice.

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You said yes.

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Question.

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I just have one question for you though.

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Like, so are you, because I don't know where you stand on Roe v.

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Wade.

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Like, do you think we should ban it?

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I think that...

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Because if you allow a man to say, I don't want to pay for it, then you're really forcing women into slavery here.

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Like, you're going to be forcing women to be single moms.

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I believe in the three exceptions.

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I think that life of a mother, obviously, rape, incest.

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But obviously, I don't believe that you should kill a baby.

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You shouldn't kill a baby, no. But you said, like, oh, but if a man doesn't want to be a part of it, he shouldn't have to be.

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I'm using your logic.

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I'm using your logic.

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That's not our logic.

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My logic was using your body choice.

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Okay, but if you're going to say that you're going to have a baby

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that is a part of somebody else that's inside of your body, another part of another person is inside of you, then they should have a say.

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Do you feel like there is no wrong reason to get an abortion?

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I've seen what, so I have 11 siblings.

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I'm the oldest daughter.

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I've seen plenty of pregnancies.

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I've seen my mom go through miscarriages.

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And I think that probably affects the way that I view like childbirth.

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But I think as long as a woman wants to get an abortion and it's within a reasonable time, everybody's going to have a different opinion of what the reasonable time is.

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I don't think it's second trimester.

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I don't think it's third trimester, but like before a pregnancy comes to term, go for it.

201

But if it's like getting to the point where you can see like it's just it's such a hard topic,

202

but I think elective abortions are fine before a certain time.

203

Right.

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Yeah.

205

To the financial abortion, I'm actually okay with that.

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To this question specifically, for me personhood seems to be compared around 12 to 15 weeks.

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So I would want the same rights for men and women.

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Yes, personhood.

209

Because the thing we're valuing here, well, when you say human life, what you mean is another human being that we equally value.

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And the reality is that, like, at a certain point, this is why we always, I can ask you guys this question.

211

You've got a burning building, two rooms, a thousand zygotes in one room, just recently fertilized eggs, and a baby in the other.

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Who are you picking?

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Who are you saving?

214

But that's, like, not relevant.

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It is relevant when you want to say that they are both equal?

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Are they inside of a woman's body?

217

No, there are zygotes that once you put them inside a woman's body, they will be fertilized.

218

It's human life if you believe in life.

219

Okay, one person shock at a time.

220

That's too confusing.

221

Yeah, I'll walk this through.

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Who are you picking?

223

The baby?

224

The zygotes are not fertilized.

225

They are fertilized.

226

Zygotes are always fertilized.

227

But what I'm saying is your question has nothing to do with...

228

It does.

229

No, it really does.

230

Then why don't you answer it?

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And aren't you a Christian?

232

It would be so easy.

233

Yeah.

234

So why don't you believe that that's a human life?

235

Because life at conception isn't even biblically established.

236

Even the pope would tell you this.

237

There's no idea of when ensoulment begins.

238

So if you want to have a theological conversation, we can go there, baby.

239

But the issue is that when you talk about personhood, we are talking about when we confer moral value to another being.

240

And I believe it's around 12 to 15 weeks because I think secular people value consciousness, and I think consciousness is the best representation of ensoulment.

241

That's why I value it there.

242

But legally, I'm for the complete decriminalization because what we see in abortion is that, first of all, no woman is just like being like, I've carried this for six months.

243

Man, I just want to kill it.

244

Almost every single time, it is an absolute tragedy.

245

And I'm not barring her from care.

246

What we see in decriminalized states versus criminalized states, mothers die more, babies die more, children go into poverty, and children go into foster care,

247

an 11% increase in Texas when they started banning abortions into foster care, which is just a tragedy.

248

Your deaths increased in Texas by 6 percent with this.

249

Baby deaths increased by 12 percent.

250

So when I'm talking about decriminalization, I'm for it all because I want mothers and babies to live.

251

But when we're talking about a moral question, which is what you're interested in, when does ensolment begin?

252

I would like to disagree with what you said about every time a woman has an abortion, it's some type of tragic decision.

253

I said after six months, just to clarify.

254

Okay, because what I have seen is that women are using abortion as birth control.

255

No, they're not.

256

No, they're not.

257

What I have seen— That's not even what the word birth control means.

258

Nearly in a year.

259

Okay, if I may finish.

260

The protests, abortion on demand, my body, my choice—do whatever you want to.

261

My concern, again, as an older woman, when we are all gone,

262

what is going to be left behind if we look at families and children as disposable?

263

I say, why do we have to take the nuclear option as the first option?

264

There's over 30-something forms of birth control for women.

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I don't know how many of them were created by women when we want to talk about laws.

266

I'm sure there were men scientists that came up with these ways

267

that we can prevent abortion by preventing getting pregnant if you don't want to.

268

But I would just disagree.

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I think women are using it as, oh, well, not always.

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I'm sure there are reasons that are tragic.

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I've never had an abortion.

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Thank God.

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I was able to deliver without issue.

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My husband and I planned for those children.

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Do you want to know the best...

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Sorry, do you mind if I jump in?

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Go ahead.

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Do you want to know the best policy for reducing abortion and increasing childbirth?

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The best policy is making birth free and providing comprehensive welfare care for mothers and children.

280

I agree.

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Nothing is free.

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When I say free, I mean universal health care, obviously.

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Hi, loves.

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It's me again.

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Dr. Michelle Daff, we've really been enjoying producing these meaningful conversations for the Dr. Daff Show.

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The next prompt is, white women benefit the most from the feminist movement.

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Okay.

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Thank you.

307

Well, almost everyone agreed, but they're not quite.

308

Okay, why don't you go ahead and share.

309

I don't think any woman benefits from feminist feminism,

310

but I do agree if we're playing into, I don't know, I don't really like to,

311

because I don't like feminism, I don't really like to even acknowledge any kind of a benefit

312

or anything because I just don't agree with it as an ideology.

313

But there is that race element to it.

314

Do you think being able to choose your career or wear pants or drive or vote or anything like that is

315

Something that feminism has brought about or what do you think brought that about?

316

Well, I just don't if I had to choose my womanhood

317

or my motherhood over material gain I would choose my just an answer to the question to please No, I think it's materialist.

318

Don't you have all the little thing

319

that still does not answer my question There's been a lot of not answering questions here I think

320

that is going completely off the prompt.

321

Yeah, I'm just going completely off the prompt is white women benefit more Yeah, they do.

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We agree.

323

Yes, they fucking do.

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But white women always come up before everyone else most of the time anyway.

325

That's just the thing.

326

It's still—sorry to bring up race, but, like, white people in general.

327

So if we're going to talk about women, yeah, did it benefit white women more?

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Of course it did, because we still had to tackle the civil rights movement.

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Human rights.

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Well, I see why you fight for it.

331

All of those movements are movements to get you to do things.

332

It's not you thinking for yourself.

333

This movement was so that we could decide what we wanted to do.

334

Well, most of the stuff that you guys said you wanted, you have now.

335

Now it's to the point where you have allowed men.

336

Because of feminism.

337

You have literally allowed physical, like you physically allowed men into your movement.

338

It just contradicts the whole movement.

339

Well, you allow...

340

We're not against men.

341

We're not against men.

342

Transgender women are men.

343

Oh, God, we're not going there.

344

Yeah, they're men.

345

Here we go.

346

You guys allowed them in the movement.

347

I think in general, movements that are about any group of people is always going to best

348

serve the majority population within that group and also those who already have other privileges conferred intersexually in other areas, which is why white women are going to benefit the most from feminism, right?

349

If you look at class-oriented stuff, generally, poor white people will benefit significantly more on certain measures than other groups of people, right?

350

This is just generally the case in part because of just numbers.

351

There's just more of them in that group of people, right?

352

And because of that, you're just going to get more out-chiners and stuff like that.

353

You're going to get people who benefit maximally from it.

354

So this is mostly a population issue.

355

Yeah, there's more white women.

356

White women will disproportionately benefit from feminism.

357

But I guess maybe I could answer Matrix about feminism doesn't confer any benefits because you don't like feminism.

358

I think one of the issues, so one thing that happens on my tribe

359

that I have a major issue with is we don't acknowledge any of the good things from the established institution, which they call patriarchy, that has benefited everyone, right?

360

And I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

361

Feminism just has given you a credit card.

362

I don't know what else it could even, nothing else is attributable here, right?

363

It just did give you the right to vote, right?

364

It did give you these choices.

365

And I get you don't like feminism, but unfortunately, that's what is to blame for these things.

366

You can dislike feminism and still appreciate what historical feminists have done.

367

No, I can do what I want.

368

I can not like it, not contribute to it, not be a part of it, not have a credit card, not vote.

369

I can do that.

370

I guess I'm meant to be intellectually coherent.

371

You have to, but it's fine if you don't want to.

372

Exactly.

373

Thank you.

374

I think, I don't know, I could be wrong, but I think what maybe these women feel is that maybe those things are important to you, but they're not important to them.

375

Right.

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But the thing, the difference I think here between like, I don't, maybe it's confusing for you guys, but feminists, I don't want to tell you what to do with your life.

377

I genuinely don't care what you do.

378

If you want to have a baby, I want you to have, actually, if you want to have a baby, I want you to have a baby because those are the people who we want to have be parents, right?

379

Like feminism is all about choice.

380

If you want to be a trad wife, I want you to be that trad wife.

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I hope you find the man who can provide for you in this economy.

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That's all it is.

383

It's just about having choice.

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I'm not telling anyone how to live their life.

385

I would never tell you guys what to do.

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But I feel from your point, you are telling us how to live lives.

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Like a lot of the time it comes off as you're wrong if you do this.

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You're bad if you do that.

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And I'm not going to tell you if you're right or wrong about your decisions for yourself.

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I'm not your mother.

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I don't know what's better for you.

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Just like you guys aren't mine.

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So that's my only problem here.

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Feminism is just a way of, it's an equalizer so we can all come up together.

395

I feel you.

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I guess, like, for me, like, the reason why I really opt out

397

and I'm strongly against it is because I don't really hear you guys acknowledge any positive things, like, about motherhood, like, at the forefront of the movement.

398

Like, I feel like a lot of the stories that are told in feminism or feminist theory and stuff, it's always, like, these terrible, tragic, sad stories.

399

And like even the women that you reference, you know, as our feminist leaders, like they didn't live very beautiful,

400

amazing, extravagant lives that we any little girl would want to aspire to live.

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And so I feel like a lot of time.

402

Well, Mary Wollstonecraft, Susan B.

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Anthony, all of these feminists, they all had very tragic, sad, like traumatizing lives.

404

And so even when they take like anecdotes like of other women's lives,

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it's always a highlight on like these terrible things and it's like why can't we teach women how to be happy, how to, you know, submit and enjoy that,

406

how to appreciate what their body can do.

407

Like I don't understand why that is something that's shunned because y'all's faces are turning.

408

So that's what I'm trying to say is like why is it always, why are all the bad stories amplified?

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That's what I'm curious about because that's not every woman's story.

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That's not every woman's experience.

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No, you're right.

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No good story comes from everything going right is a quote that I've heard that I think maybe might answer that.

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But with back to the prompt, we all agree feminism benefits white people, white women the most.

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How do we actually bring everybody else up?

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Is there any, like, people that disagree with feminism, like, how do we bring everybody up?

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I think we bring up our community by turning towards each other instead of against each other.

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And I think if you look at it as a balanced approach, I'm not going to deny the fact that women can work, we can vote, we can own, we can do all those things.

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But I think it is foolish to only look at that and not look at the harm that feminism has caused, especially minority communities.

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I'll speak as a Black woman.

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Black women get married at one-fourth the rate.

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And that is not helping our community because we're going against our men.

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And our communities are stronger because we are better together.

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So I think when we promote healthy families, when we promote the nuclear family, when we promote husbands and wives, moms and dads, boys and girls, that is how we get better.

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Feminism is not going to make us better.

425

Feminism is actually making our community work.

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I didn't know that feminism equals like not getting married at a higher rate.

427

Is that what you guys think feminism is?

428

Is it just don't marry?

429

I mean it leads to not getting married because men just don't like masculinity.

430

They don't like women that...

431

So you think if you're a feminist you're masculine?

432

I mean you can take a look at this role of how these women are dressed.

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They're dressed very feminine, all of them.

434

And then look at you guys.

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Great, cute.

436

And I'm not even...

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You guys are dressed all.

438

I'm not even...

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And this is not a dig at you guys.

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It is.

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It's not a dig.

442

But it is.

443

But it's just to say that, I mean, then I'm more attracted to that.

444

Do you think that's right?

445

Are you kidding?

446

That is insulting.

447

Yeah, men will put their dk in what they can put it in.

448

They won't.

449

But they will marry.

450

She just sat here and looked at all of us and said, oh, this is what men want.

451

I mean, X them.

452

The reason that I said it benefits white women more, I don't even think, I don't think it benefits women at all.

453

But if we go back to like Margaret Sanger starting Planned Parenthood and abortion, she part of the eugenics movement.

454

So she wanted to kill black babies.

455

So that is part of the feminist movement, was to get rid of black women's babies and the black population.

456

I think this actually speaks really well.

457

I forget your name.

458

I'm so sorry.

459

Maggie.

460

Maggie was saying this as well, and it's something I echo, which is that there's a really big problem

461

that happens in our tribes where we don't want to look at the bad things that's associated with them.

462

And I would totally agree with that, right?

463

I look at that and I'm like, I don't think that's great.

464

I like Simone de Beauvoir for lots of reasons, but I don't love everything.

465

I don't love everything that feminists do, right?

466

When I say that I'm a feminist, it's because the ideology, which I would label as feminism,

467

is for the promotion of femininity and the advocacy and empowerment of women.

468

I think that that's good.

469

So look at the third wave of feminism, which you're probably going to have an issue with.

470

The third wave of feminism was a very white woman movement.

471

It was mostly fixated on getting women into work and wasn't celebrating things that are associated more typically for women with femininity.

472

I think that that's bad.

473

But you look at the fourth wave movement of feminism, and that's corrected.

474

That's why I like the fourth wave of feminism.

475

So we can have bad actors, we can have bad ideas in feminism and still identify with the idea if you choose to, right?

476

And this is why I choose to.

477

I don't stand by every feminist.

478

I mean, we've disagreed on this side, right?

479

We're heterogeneous necessarily.

480

And yeah, I guess I'll let you back to that.

481

Well, our country was founded by white men who raped their slaves, but it doesn't mean that I'm not proud to be an American, just in the same way that I would say that I'm proud to be a feminist.

482

So and the final prompt is there is no shame in having a high body count Okay

483

Well, I think that shame leads to repentance

484

and repentance leads to changed behavior and so having a high body count like for example,

485

I talk to people in my community in the Christian community and I speak with people and women that do have

486

high body counts, they tend to struggle with like BPD, borderline personality disorder, other personality issues,

487

comparison, even struggling with being satisfied in the bedroom with their husbands because they had so many other sexual partners.

488

So I do think that there should be shame.

489

I think there should be shame if men are sleeping around.

490

I will say that.

491

There's accountability for that too.

492

That's not right.

493

So, but this is like our Christian beliefs.

494

So my Christian beliefs are both of us should be waiting until marriage.

495

I want to address the statistics there because people with higher body counts do show higher satisfaction in relationships,

496

specifically also like couples who have more sex over time experience happier sexual relationships like that.

497

The other thing, I want to make sure that we're getting the causation right here.

498

women or people with BPD struggle with higher impulsive sexual behavior.

499

It's not people who are more sexual struggle with BPD.

500

I want to make sure we're not like saying this thing is causing like high sexual behavior is causing BPD.

501

It just happens to be that this group of people.

502

That's like saying that people who have like hallucinations struggle with schizophrenia or whatever whatever,

503

we're like, okay, well, yeah, you're going to look at a population that has a high level of that and say, oh, well, they have high levels of this.

504

Well, yeah, that's like the population you're looking at.

505

That's like saying also that men happen to be more suicidal and then saying like, oh, it's a thing with men.

506

Like, it is just a fact about being a male that makes you more suicidal, which is not true.

507

Like, you're getting the causation kind of mixed up.

508

I want to make sure that's very clear.

509

I mean, I feel like I'm going to speak from a whole different type of language where I think

510

that when you are laying down with someone, you're creating a soul tie.

511

So I do think that that will lead to some type of just spiritual bonding.

512

Do you have like an argument that there's like a spiritual or is this just like religious?

513

That's just my religious beliefs.

514

Okay, there's no evidence.

515

I mean, I can't argue with that.

516

Anyone else?

517

I feel like we're looking at different statistics on the relational satisfaction

518

because women with higher body counts get divorced at a far higher rate.

519

And they also, it's harder for them to pair bond with their husbands because they've had so many past partners.

520

So pair bonding research is really not super strong, right?

521

This idea of like oxytocin being released and stuff like that.

522

The pair bonding is quite weak, evidentially.

523

Like it's just increasingly becoming an odd popular theory around sex and sexual bonding, right?

524

It seems like intimacy and closeness over time predicts closeness rather than these sort of things.

525

I guess to kind of speak to the shame piece more directly,

526

being Christian as well, there is immeasurable amounts of sexual shame in the church.

527

So guilt, when you're talking about repentance, guilt drives behavioral change.

528

Shame doesn't.

529

Shame drives lying and closing down and not talking to others.

530

If you look at the rates, for example, of vaginismus, if you guys don't know what

531

that is it's when sex and any form of penetration is exceptionally painful for a woman.

532

It is three times higher in religious groups.

533

As a woman, I'm married for eight years.

534

I only have a body count of one.

535

I came from a very Christian background.

536

My Christian background and the tying of sexual shame that was there was so hard on my marriage.

537

And in fact, if you talk to a lot of religious women, they're going to tell you this, right?

538

A lot of my friends, for example, say, my virginity was so tied to my value that when I lost it to my husband, I thought I was dirty, right?

539

Look at the rates of orgasm amongst religious married women.

540

So shame in general when it comes to sexuality seems mostly just to lead to worse outcomes.

541

There can be conversations about impulsivity, right, about choosing who your partner is more wisely.

542

I'm actually open to those conversations.

543

The issue is that when we shame people for their body count, it's disproportionately women, right?

544

If you look at these, and I agree that you're consistent, it's both for you.

545

Look at these Red Pill podcasts.

546

All they want to do is get their body count up and shame women for giving them that body count.

547

Right?

548

This leads to worse relationships.

549

What is a high body count?

550

I'm curious.

551

What's the number?

552

What's the number?

553

I don't think it's necessarily a number.

554

I think it's more so the idea of sleeping around for no reason and not having any commitment.

555

I know, right?

556

Sure, sure.

557

And I would actually agree with the shame part in religion.

558

I think purity culture can be very dangerous.

559

It's seen as more of a sin than anything else.

560

And it's very damaging to women.

561

And we see this even in marriages, like you said, women still think sex is a sin in their marriage.

562

I think that's a problem.

563

So I think it's not so much the sh—I don't think we need to bring back shame to women.

564

I think it's more so that sexual, like being sexual and being promiscuous shouldn't be celebrated as much in our culture as it is.

565

Sure, but the prompt was specifically, is it more shameful, right?

566

And you guys said yes.

567

That is necessarily bringing more shame to women for this.

568

That's necessarily doing the thing you're opposed to.

569

Okay, well, I mean, I have a yes or no.

570

So I'm not going to say no because I don't think that being sexually promiscuous is good for anyone.

571

So that's why I said...

572

That wasn't the prompt.

573

Okay.

574

So I want to chime in here and say

575

that I grew up in a very conservative religion that shamed you for any type of sex outside of marriage.

576

What did that lead to?

577

What did shaming people about body count lead to in that kind of religious situation?

578

People lied about it.

579

Here's the natural truth about humans.

580

All of us have sex even when we pretend we don't have sex.

581

We are all still having sex.

582

I don't care if it's the 1950s or it's 2025.

583

Every person is having sex.

584

That's just the reality of it.

585

Some people want to have sex less than others.

586

Some people want to have sex more than others.

587

And none of that is about who they are morally as a person.

588

I am a person who happens to consider myself to be hypersexual.

589

It's just part of who I am.

590

It's always been part of who I am.

591

And when I was 14, growing up in a very religious church that told me that who I was as a person was bad, that was really harmful for me as a person.

592

I was depressed as a child.

593

I was on antidepressants.

594

I thought something was broken in myself.

595

And when I finally left that religion and the shackles of the shame

596

that had been placed on me by the patriarchy in that religion, I realized there's nothing wrong with me.

597

I'm just this type of person.

598

And here's the deal.

599

People who like to have sex with a lot of people, we like to date other people who like to have sex with a lot of people.

600

And people who don't like to have sex with a lot

601

of people should date people who don't have sex with a lot of people.

602

And it doesn't say anything about who they are as a person

603

or their value as a human being or how good they are or how bad they are.

604

It means nothing.

605

It means nothing.

606

It's just a bodily function that most people end up doing.

607

And that's how I feel about sex, sexuality.

608

And if you want to get your freak on, get it on.

609

And if you don't, keep it locked up in a chastity cage.

610

I literally don't care.

611

But it doesn't mean anything about you morally.

612

Yeah, I agree with that.

613

I think a lot of people are using their personal experiences to define their reality.

614

So you say like you grew up religious, they told you don't do this, so obviously you're going to do the exact opposite.

615

That's not why I am who I am.

616

But I'm just saying.

617

I just like getting freaky.

618

Sure.

619

There could be a middle ground there, though.

620

Like I think having multiple sex partners, like loosely having sex with different men, not only is it dangerous because you can catch STDs,

621

this is why you guys are having abortions, This is why, you know, you're not desired.

622

It's a lot of things that is happening.

623

I mean, I would say the amount of sex partners I have would indicate I am desired.

624

I mean, that seems like the opposite.

625

But you also just said being sick, sick, sick, sick.

626

But men value women that they marry, not women that they have sex with.

627

So women that they have sex with is usually just a throwaway.

628

But again, men who like to have sex like to be with women who like to have sex.

629

So they actually just partner together.

630

Like that's the reality.

631

I would disagree.

632

They just partner together.

633

I just personally feel like you guys probably don't ever listen to men.

634

Men like women with a low body count.

635

You could just listen to them and they'll tell you this out of their mouth.

636

You don't have to go looking for this.

637

But again, this is the conversation.

638

The men I like to date are like me, and they like to have lots of partners because we are good in bed, and we're experienced.

639

But you guys are always speaking for the— And those men want to have a woman who they own their virginity.

640

You're always speaking for the exception and not the rule, though.

641

Why do you guys—in all of your arguments today, you represented the exception and not the rule.

642

I'm asking why do men prefer women with lower body counts?

643

Is it just a name?

644

Because these are the women that have to bear their children.

645

It's because ignorance is bliss, and they don't want to be compared.

646

These are the women that have to bear their children.

647

Oh, you guys seem to have a problem a little bit with men, like just comments that you're making, but yet you...

648

I have no problem with men.

649

I'm straight.

650

I love men.

651

I just heard multiple negative comments about men.

652

You do realize that men are responsible for 90% of the violent crime.

653

But you're sleeping with many of them.

654

Yeah, but we still are.

655

We still love men.

656

90% of the violent crime, that still does not represent all men.

657

That still would be the minority of men.

658

So men are awesome.

659

Men are great.

660

They protect you just like they assault women.

661

They protect women.

662

They fight wars so you don't have to.

663

Other men.

664

They protect you from generally another man.

665

So enough with that.

666

OK, that is protecting whom?

667

But I'm saying, I'm not against men.

668

You literally just put words in my mouth saying, oh, I'm anti-man.

669

I'm not.

670

I'm straight.

671

I'm straight.

672

I'm men.

673

A lot of them.

674

I didn't say you were anti-men.

675

No, I'm serious.

676

I'm pretty sure that we all love men.

677

I'm so tired of them being labeled as anti-man.

678

We're not.

679

In fact, I think feminists help men because we're trying to relieve a little bit of pressure off of them.

680

They're not anti-men.

681

They would rather you just respect them.

682

They would just rather respect.

683

They don't care about none of the things you have to offer.

684

Just because we don't worship men doesn't mean that we don't like them.

685

I don't put them on a pedestal.

686

I don't treat them like they're princes.

687

But they should be on a pedestal.

688

I'm not like, oh, what great amazing dudes.

689

I like men just fine.

690

I'm unfortunately straight, too.

691

Question on this side, especially for those of you who love men, right?

692

Yeah.

693

What, can you tell me some things you love about men?

694

Yeah, some of them have great sense of humor, some of them are super helpful and funny, and I mean, I like men the same reasons I like women.

695

These are all just human traits.

696

You're funny, you're smart, you're good looking, you take care of me.

697

I've had, I've met, I have girlfriends like that.

698

I'm not, I mean girlfriends is friends from girls.

699

We're talking, because you said that, a lot of people think feminists hate men.

700

I wanna know, without talking about women, Only talking about men, what do you like about men?

701

About their uniqueness of being, I'm asking the men lovers.

702

I guess I'm trying to think about what makes men unique though, because when I like a man, they're funny, they're smart, they're good looking,

703

but I could describe a woman with these terms.

704

Okay, so you don't think that there are things about men that are unique, necessarily?

705

Well, I mean, I'm born straight, so I can't say I choose to be attracted to men.

706

Like, this is how I was born, you know what I mean?

707

So like, I can't tell you what that's about, but I can say that I like men because they're funny.

708

They're smart, some of them.

709

They can protect me if I need to sometimes.

710

Like, I understand why you like men, but I think you can all understand that they have traits that are not good, right?

711

You have men you don't like, right?

712

You know that not all men are great.

713

And I wanna know what you like about men too, without PG.

714

PG, right.

715

So I would say a lot of my good friends are men.

716

I think men are smart and funny, just like she was saying.

717

I think that I'm sexually attracted to men.

718

I think they're pretty much the exact same as women.

719

But if I were choosing to hang out with someone one-on-one, I'd probably pick a woman, because I'd probably be safer.

720

Because they probably wouldn't be trying to, I don't know, have sex with me as an ulterior motive.

721

So it sounds like a lot of, but I mean, I just don't see men as like a special category

722

that they need to be worshipped in some separate way.

723

Like, oh, men are really the reason why I'm here.

724

I think the reason why I'm here is women.

725

I tend to worship women more than men.

726

But don't you know that men allow you to have your rights?

727

Because if it really came down to it, they can just overpower you and take all of your rights.

728

Actually, I have rights because of women.

729

I have rights because women who came before me.

730

You have rights because of men.

731

No, I have rights because of men.

732

I'm here because of women.

733

Okay, and if they declare war on you because of your rights, what happens?

734

You all die.

735

You're having a hypothetical conversation about something that hasn't happened.

736

I'm having a real conversation.

737

I'm having a real conversation about the fact that the reason why I'm able to vote is not because of men, but because of hard-working women. And what?

738

Who allowed it?

739

A few good men.

740

A few good men.

741

A lot of good men.

742

A lot of good men.

743

Why do you think there are no women civilizations?

744

Because men will take them down.

745

If you create gender into class, then men are also pedophiles and rapists and criminals.

746

You realize that, right?

747

But guess what?

748

That is the minority of them.

749

I would say men are not rapists.

750

Some men who are bad do bad things.

751

You have the minority.

752

Most men are not criminals.

753

That's what—we're not, because I am not treating gender like a class.

754

I understand that police officers and soldiers are more often men, but that doesn't mean that men who are not those things suddenly get to be like, actually, I'm doing forced doctrine too.

755

No, you've got a small group of young men who are

756

given fiat authority by a bunch of state men to enact rights that all of us agreed on.

757

That's how democracy works.

758

If you want to treat gender like a class, then you have to say men are soldiers and men are rapists.

759

And I think this is not true.

760

Some men are rapists and some men are soldiers.

761

Well, it just sounds like, I mean, like, so if a man tells you to do something, you're gonna do it.

762

Do you, I mean, are you a woman who falls in line?

763

I mean, if he's my husband, absolutely.

764

Yes.

765

If he's your husband.

766

I'm here to serve.

767

If he's your husband.

768

Yeah, that makes sense.

769

Well, let's talk about just some random ass man.

770

If a random man just asked me to do something.

771

That's what I'm saying.

772

Like, you just a minute ago said like, oh, men, if they could come in and just do this, they can take our rights from us.

773

It's like, yeah, that's why we're here.

774

But that's just to show you that men are not your enemy.

775

You make it sound like I'm supposed to fall in line.

776

But you guys are, everything you're saying is because of the men, because of the patriarchy.

777

That's not what patriarchy doesn't offer to them.

778

Men are not your enemy.

779

Yeah, no, patriarchy is a system.

780

I know, but I'm saying, I said because of the patriarchy.

781

Men are not your enemy is what I'm trying to say.

782

I don't care.

783

I'm saying that if men didn't want you to have rights, you wouldn't have them.

784

That's what I'm telling you.

785

So they could be pieces of shit, like, that just proves that they're not pieces of shit because you have rights.

786

How long have we had them?

787

How long have we had them?

788

I can say the same thing about black people.

789

I'm not over here complaining about being black in America.

790

Now you have them.

791

14 countries out of 190 countries, women actually have rights.

792

And what those rights are, there's like a whole chart.

793

But only 14.

794

Like if you go anywhere else in the world, your rights can be taken away just because of the body you have.

795

And like we're very grateful to be in this country where we do have rights.

796

We've only had them for 105 years.

797

We have to defend those rights against the bad men

798

that are openly talking about repealing the 19th and like women should stay in the kitchen.

799

Like it's like it's not all men.

800

I have great men in my life.

801

I love them.

802

I just hung out with one of them last night.

803

And it's like they're so caring.

804

I do love men.

805

I just don't love all men.

806

I hate abusive men.

807

And good men know that when we're talking about them.

808

Can I ask one question?

809

What would it take for you guys to no longer be feminism to say feminist to say, hey, we have all equal rights now we have everything we need

810

when does the movement stop

811

because it seems like it never stops it's not going to stop

812

because they now have already overturned roe v wade we've seen a right

813

that we fought for and won taken back

814

so now we have to come back they overturned it to give it to the states

815

which means the people within those states can vote for it's not a right

816

if it can be stopped at an invisible line then it's not a right anymore

817

and that's why we're here in the first place it was

818

not it's not in the constitution it was never supposed to be there in the first place

819

Neither was the women's right to vote or anything else.

820

I personally, very controversial, I don't think women should vote.

821

Because we get women like this that say all of these crazy things.

822

You don't vote then, right?

823

I do vote.

824

Why?

825

Lead by example.

826

This is what I'm saying.

827

You're all here using your voice to tell me that you don't want one.

828

I have to combat women like you.

829

So I have to vote.

830

No, you're using your voice to tell me you don't want a voice.

831

So go home.

832

That's why men are more logical.

833

Because you guys are always on the wrong side of issues.

834

That's what it is.

835

You don't even know why you're doing the things that you're doing.

836

You just do things, and then you blame men.

837

Let me tell you, let me tell this, like, I'm going to say this right now, and I hope this gets on camera, and let me say this.

838

Being on the side of a woman's right to vote is never the wrong side of an issue.

839

Every person here is a human being.

840

Voting is a human right.

841

I won't sit here and have a conversation about repealing human rights and pretend that that's a normal conversation to be having.

842

Women deserve the right to vote because we are human beings.

843

We deserve to be treated like humans, and we are not more emotional than men.

844

When a man throws a remote at a television and breaks it after a football game, then have a conversation with me about who's more emotional.

845

The other thing, though, about the voting thing, though, for me, is that this country was founded because of taxation without representation.

846

And so if women don't vote, then I'm not going to pay taxes, right?

847

Because that's taxation without representation.

848

You don't have to work either.

849

That's the point.

850

Your man would pay the taxes.

851

That is exactly the point.

852

You won't work.

853

What world?

854

I don't know.

855

I actually wanted to answer your question.

856

You asked about body count, coming back to body count, which was the last prompt.

857

And you said, why do men want a woman with a low body count?

858

And the answer is because we're not equal.

859

And again, this is going to always be the fallacy

860

and the flaw with feminism because you're going to be fighting for an equality that does not exist.

861

I'm not saying better or worse.

862

I'm saying we are different.

863

Now, it depends on what you want intimacy for.

864

If you want to be out there doing it with everybody, you absolutely have your right to do that.

865

Please be loud and proud.

866

We want to see you coming.

867

The men love women like that to have fun with.

868

However, when you talk about love, when you talk about marriage, when you talk about a committed relationship, most of us, when you get to your old age,

869

usually you have one, if you're lucky, like me, two great loves.

870

You don't think about the string of casual sex that has been promoted and think of that like, man, I really got it all in.

871

Most of us don't.

872

You're free to do that if you want to.

873

But I'm just saying, as we age, what's going to really matter is the relationships, the marriages, the families, the relationships that meant something, the intimacy that meant something.

874

You can do as much as you want to with whoever you want to.

875

But I do agree, the way casual sex is promoted now, it is hurting us.

876

It may be fun in the moment, but it's going to hurt us, and we're all going to pay the price for it.

877

Thank you so much for being here and sharing.

878

This was a really interesting discussion.

879

I thank you for your voices and your honesty.

880

I hope that everyone watching online is able to glean something from this conversation.

881

Let us know in the comments what you think, what your opinions are on what we discussed today.

882

And until next time, bye-bye.

ما هي تقنية التظليل الصوتي؟

التظليل الصوتي (Shadowing) تقنية تعلم لغة مدعومة علمياً، طُورت أصلاً لتدريب المترجمين الفوريين المحترفين. الطريقة بسيطة لكنها قوية: تستمع لصوت إنجليزي أصلي وتكرره فوراً بصوت عالٍ — كظل يتبع المتحدث بتأخير 1-2 ثانية. تُظهر الأبحاث تحسناً كبيراً في دقة النطق والتنغيم والإيقاع وربط الأصوات والاستماع والطلاقة.

تدريب Shadowing: Feminist vs Anti-Feminist Women | PART 2 - تعلم التحدث بالإنجليزية عبر الفيديو

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ما هي تقنية التظليل الصوتي؟